That’s a key thing to understand about her and Biden, is how competitive they are. I don’t think, from my reporting, that she would ultimately have the power to stop someone like Klain coming on, but I also think she wouldn’t do that, because at points throughout their history together - and Harris is actually an example - she understands that what these people can help her husband win. And several people actually told me that it took a lot of diplomacy to get Jill to the point that she was supportive of. When he decamped to work on Hillary Clinton’s campaign, that was seen as an ultimate disloyal move. It’s about loyalty.” is exactly how they explain that whole thing to me.Ī couple other examples: a prime one is Ron Klain, who was Biden’s first chief of staff and a longtime fixture of Biden world. One person said, “You know, she’s Italian. There was one moment in 2022 where Jill Biden goes to a fundraiser in San Francisco, which is Kamala Harris’ home turf, and is hearing from donors about how much they hope Kamala Harris is serving the Bidens and how proud they are of her - “We just hope she represents us well” meaning San Francisco.Īnd Jill Biden, who is a very classically trained fundraising political spouse, doesn’t say anything, takes a beat to the point where it’s awkward and says, “But what about Ketanji?” steering the conversation away from a very fulsome compliment of the vice president toward her husband’s pick for the Supreme Court, Ketanji Brown Jackson.Īnd if you ask people who know her, that surprises nobody. I encourage you because then you get a very classy “explicit” rating on Apple. And in exchange for that slight bump, she earns a very visceral reaction from Jill Biden, who essentially says, “Go fuck yourself.” It becomes a moment in which Harris receives a bump in the polls. So Harris, during one of the Democratic primary debates, she basically calls him a segregationist. I could go back to the ‘80s, but we could start with Kamala Harris. What are your favorite examples? Maybe we can start with Kamala Harris? There’s a strong element of “Jill the enforcer” in Biden world. Let’s talk about Jill Biden in office and what we’ve now learned about her in these three-plus years. This conversation has been edited for length and clarity, with help from Deep Dive Senior Producer Alex Keeney. We also discussed the time Rogers’ editors sent her to Arkansas to report a story about the Bidens that she didn’t want to cover - and how it ended up forcing Jill and Joe to confront an uncomfortable truth about their family. “She mirrors her husband’s grievances and channels them in her own way,” Rogers said of Melania Trump. Rogers, a reporter for the New York Times, sat down with me for this week’s episode of the Playbook Deep Dive podcast where we covered everything from the first lady’s role in staffing, campaigning and policy decisions to serving as the president’s enforcer.
The role is a largely ceremonial one for the public, but behind the scenes, the first lady is often one of the most influential - and therefore one of the most powerful people - in any White House.
The transformation of the modern first lady. These are just some of the insights Katie Rogers has gleaned after writing a new book on